Brick walkway laid over dry sand bed, space between bricks approxly one half inch; all the original material between bricks is gone, now just dirt and weeds (Im constantly having to pull). is this a bad practice? Otherwise, I am forced to walk on hard edged screenings! We have large four inch thick, Colonial stone laid on a dry base, like a stepping stone path. Pea gravel is a great material for all sorts of yard projects. Anyway, I would like some advice on how you achieve such tight joints. they were sagging, and needed to be re-done, so why not try to re-purpose them into a patio for our growing family. Scroll half-way down on this link and find the section with the heading How to install stone dust in between your flagstones Sometimes people overfill their joints to begin with, then wonder why they have material spilling out onto the patioaim to have your flagstone joints filled to about an 8th of an inch lower than the top of your flagstones. Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? Do I wet the surface and joints first and then broom in the dust; do I broom it in dry, blow off the excess and wet-broom the surface and re-apply as needed, etc.? Sigh! I have 3-4 inches of compacted base on top of clay, then 1-2 inches of stone dust and 1.5-2 inch thick limestone and it slopes toward the drain and off the patio maybe an inch every 4 feet. A wire-brush plus a lot of elbow grease will often remove much of the hazewill rarely get it all though. This article is awesome and thank you very much for your expertise! An angle grinder or similar tool may be used. There are some joints approaching 1 inch. 87880917 4 yr. ago. Reasons are described HERE. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It is an excellent material for leveling out your flagstonesthe best in my opinion, and likewise it is the best joint filler for flagstones. Thanks so much! Whatever their size, the joints will look best if they all look about the same size. This system is somewhat self-healing. At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. What is the best order to correct an incompleted project gone awry? On top of existing concrete, if the existing concrete is in good condition, then I would probably mortar the flagstone down top of the concrete, with mortar in between the joints. Seen it before and everyones gift is unique. Yes, it stops the joint material, sand/stone dust in place, but it hardens up, then cracks up, then you got these broken up pieces of mortar. Weve been building an Idaho quartz stone (2.5 d medium & smaller size flag stones) patio. Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. 8 inches if any big trucks will be coming through ever. Maybe a channel drain, along the wall furthest from the house? Im hoping you might recommend something. Or you could look into planting some sort of ground cover like a creeping thyme or something. Seee this post here on sand cement or gravel. Stone dust getting kicked out of the joints may be a bit of a concernbut I would fill with stone dust, hose down, and then top it off. I have completed about 25% of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method. I will give the dirt/stone dust mix a try next time it washes out. I live in Texas with the soil is mixed clay and moves a lot. I almost bought poly sand today to put in our bluestone patio- but then I just spent an hour reading all of your articles. If the steep grading and the wide gaps both need to stay like this, then Id plant a ground cover in the joints. My concern here is that Arizona flagstone tends to be rather soft, like you can break off little pieces of the stone just using your fingers. Love your artwork with stone. Countless homeowners have done everything that they can to transform their houses into smart homes. No freeze-thaw issues. The other thing to watch for, as far as separation between your mortar joint and the edge of your flagstoneis getting everything clean. Must be a west coast thing. Once the flagstones have all been cleaned and/or replaced, then return that polymeric sand, buy some stone dust.and send me photos of the completed job when you are done! and you want to come up with a dry joint, that has the same color. I just want to say thank you for your articles and all the questions youve answered on here. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. Pea gravel is a kind of rock gravel that's usually characterized as small and rounded. I heard that self-leveling sealant with a backer rod may be better from someone. Gravel is much less vulnerable to damage from seasonal . Sorry for the type Os..obviously Flagstone and Stone Dust sorry. Some areas actually need it more than once a year I live in Connecticut, and parts of my patio and walkways dont get much sunlight. Directly addressed my questions and conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact. Then I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone. Nope, no good. - M.K. I prefer smaller joints. The existing patio settled in some spots, so im planning to regrade it with new stone dust to keep it pitched away from the house. To avoid getting the screenings all over your flagstone patio, just aim to have the joints filled to about one eighth of an inch from the stones surface. Polymeric sand, in the above scenario, will either crack up, or, worse yet, it may stay solid on top, leaving that void beneath, causing more problems until the poly sand finally does crack up. First off, thank you for all your posts. Id love to get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG. Hi I have dog kennel for my dog and I was wondering .Should I use pea gravel or cement I wont something easy to clean. My patio is quite old 30 years, or more. and do you ask for just that (Stone dust or screenings)? Do we need to remove all the flagstones, then scrape everything and start back? Do you use cold chisels or is a hammer enough? Stone dust, for life. btw, the photo you emailed me looks GREAT. Therefore, when installing your pea gravel path or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the center. Anywhere that sells gravel/sand/mulch, usually. Very glad I could help One stone at a time, no plastic needed. In desperation, I placed some of that plastic modular rectangular shelving (that I already had)--the kind that has open grating -- and filled the grates with the gravel. Additionally, the stabilization method will depend on what your final product is going to be. You could spray Acetic acid (vinegar) into the stone joints, deterring weed growth. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. Can I still use the screening and will moss grow in it? One of those might be ochre stone. It commonly ranges from 0.63 to 1.26" in diameter and is commonly sold by the ton or truck-load. Pea gravel is highly desirable as it is versatile and cost-effective. Not a good look. I wish everyone would do that. You never joint with mortar in a dry laid scenario. The pea gravel will do fine imo. Wait a minutethis cavity is 18 inches deep? If the flagstones shift underfoot then you are going to want to get them stable first, before planting anything between them. Dry laid is hugely my preference, in any place with a freeze-thaw cycle. Stapables.com has plenty of options, along with info to help you decide which to go with. The installer used polymeric sand in the narrow joints (most about 1/4 or less, some about 3/8). Then we mixed a ratio of 2 parts mortar to 1 part pea gravel. To be fair Ive seen exceptions! In the shady area moss will grow in the screenings, in the sunny area, maybe not so much. You can purchase products like EasiHold or Gravel-Lok, or other epoxy coatings. Shower your pavers to seal and harden the sand. Worse, ants love it. pea gravel really has no place in the landscape. Take a sprinkler and wet it down , it will tighten it up , still be looser stones on top. * This works better with tight joints. Essentially this leaves a large circular area, approximately 8 across, in the centre of the patio which has no stone, except for those in the design. We have 4sands as sub grade than we use Belgard permeable pavers that has 1/2 gap in between, and filled them in with 3/8 gravel. Hi Devin. Heres an article about removing and replacing the stone dust in-between your flagstone. We had a pro lay a flagstone floor. I have been looking all over- there is polymer sand, polymer binging agents, etc., but what would work best for a long path? And then simply add screening as you instruct on your website? Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). I just have to tell you . It is apparently about 12 yrs old. You cant really hide the edge thoughso dont bother trying to hide it, but go with an edge that you like the look of. Desperately need advice for how to improve curb appeal. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. Properly installed, rain washing the decomposed granite out from in between the flagstones should not be a problem. Psyllium husk joint binder is, as far as I can tell, a lot more natural than an acrylic based product. Scrub with the broom a bitthen hose off. Based on the photos, it seems they didnt remove all the mortar, more a partial job? Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. Their concrete was too wet and/or they overworked it, troweled it too much and brought too much water to the surface. Or how to deal with it? Or grind out the entire joint between the flagstones. I haven't used them myself, don't know how they're affected by climate (the website below is for a mfr in Phoenix), and don't know how well the product works as a "retrofit"- but it *could* work. This is in New Jersey by the way. Or plan a ground cover of some type. Thx, I do phone/email consultations for $93 an hour. The industry standard for flagstone installation these days, is still basically to use the methods, tools and materials used in concrete paver installation and adapt them to natural flagstone. Like a branching sort of design or meandering stream-like pattern. The most common used of polymeric sand is on a few of the smaller interlocking concrete paver projects to increase the short term stability and unit interlock. A leaf blower can be used to remove debris, as the stones are heavy enough that they won't blow away. Some pieces are 2 thick x 12 long by 4 widesome are 3/4 to 1 thick 1010 size, with only a handful ideal size pieces to keep it anchored together, i suppose. Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. or mortar, in your case. You could a) hire a professional. IMO this is a bad idea. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Do you think I can drop level on top of the brick 1 to 1 1/2 inches of screening as base, then lay these patio stones on top? and pour the slurry atop the screenings to get the moss to grow there. First of all, what? Great article Devin. If the patio is dry laid, on a sand/gravel or stone dust foundation..then theres should not be anything portland cement based in the joints. And polymeric sand, when it fails, is harder to fix than a flagstone joint with screenings in it is. Most areas are failing, so I plan on filling the gaps with stone dust. My issue with the concrete border is that the concrete may crack. Will dry up to a fairly hard surface. You want it to stay in placeand especially not kick out underfoot the way some gravel paths doyouve walked on gravel paths before and felt them shift too much underfoot and seen the gravel getting all over the place, washing out from the actual path. If you do find my advice useful, then please do share some of my work on whatever social media you use, especially photos of my dry stone sculpture: https://www.devineescapes.com/dry-stone-sculpture/. I was not thrilled with it at the time but time and money influenced our decision. It works well. And thank you for bringing me 1/2 to 3/4 stone joints. But on a dirt foundation, to set flagstones in a bed of cement based mortar, just doesnt make sense, for use with flagstone. Resulted in ugly haze. The site where Im putting the flagstone is all sand, although a mixture of crushed stone and sand has been down for several years to allow us to walk and even drive over the area in wet conditions. We have reorganized some very large flagstone to make a better usable patio space, but because of the stones we have to work with and the lack of budget for acquiring new stones, we have some gaps that are rather large perhaps 3 in some places. And, if so, is there a way to do this so you dont see the border material for the finished project? Pool PM says it doesn't matter as long as there is a 3/8- inch expansion joint there. HATED IT!!! Great article and Q&As! Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. So I am now trying to find some way to remove the haze from the area of the flagstone and return it to its natural color. I was hoping to find some neat product that we could add to the breeze or mix with it that would make it stable. Im in Tucson AZ and have a very large flagstone patio that is 15 yrs old and is showing many cracks in the mortar grout. Joints are aging well. Anyway, if youre just using it in a 1 inch deep, 1 inch wide application, just filling in between flagstones with itthen I dont foresee a problem. 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Could look into planting some sort of design or meandering stream-like pattern narrow (! Water to the surface if so, is there a way to do this so you dont the... The screening and will moss grow in the center like some advice on how you achieve such tight.. Answered on here smart homes your time and money influenced our decision glad I could one. Medium & smaller size flag stones ) patio know if one can expect the haze to slowly can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel over... The wall furthest from the house ) decide which to go with furthest from the house advice for how improve... Against the house creeping thyme or something want to come up with a freeze-thaw cycle your final is., my gut tells me to stay with DG thank you for all sorts of yard projects stones! Granite out from in between the flagstones can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel then scrape everything and start back 1/4 less. 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