(Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. (Steve Weiss). All of the tapers that I am finding appear to be using a Super Z. I am not wanting to start the Super Z vs. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? (Reed Guice). 0.196 So far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section. Just giving a different perspective and what has worked for me. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), As far as being a Straight horizontal Stress Curve it makes NO difference what the rod is as long as the conditions produce a SHSC. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. 5 0.0825 I've made at least a dozen Perfectionists (most with a swelled butt so they aren't exactly the same) and all their owners love them. Harry Boyd ----------- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com maker@canerods.com Aransas.clarks Guide Posts: 301 0.248 All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. The Dickersons that I've seen were similar. by LeeO 05/26/17 07:47, Post Adding material to the butt section will stiffen and add power. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. (Robin Haywood). Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. Perhaps I did not state myself clearly. Again, there is slight flattening around the ferrule, and I suspect the measurement at 35" is due to machine operator error/technique rather than designed in. You are correct, this is just a way of evaluating the effects of adding or subtracting material from different areas along a rods length. (Will McMurrey), Just very briefly, a Castle Connell taper is a good example, where you have a curious reverse taper in the upper part of the lower half of the rod. At Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company we build our rods based on proven "historical" tapers, meaning that the tapers we use were designed by Twentieth Century bamboo fly rod craftsmen. 45 0.186 158623 The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. $239.00 + $24.95 shipping (2) Vintage HEDDON PAL Casting Rods - #6277 Wormer 5'6"+ #6273 Musky Special 5' . 0.138 Although it takes only 3 sizes to make a given size ferrule, he may have made a specialty set. The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. I would love to have the opportunity to cast my perfectionist (or any one of the several I've made for people) against any 7 1/2-foot 5-weight of his choice and compare line speed, distance, accuracy, or any other criterion he would like. that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. (Jerry Foster), For some applications, like fishing dries from a drifting boat, it could be even a bit short. I did subtract the .006 when I made mine and I love it as I do every Dickerson taper that I've cast. Did I just read something about someone saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today's makers? They turn into 5 wts at about 60 feet, up till there, they are are 6 wts. (Will McMurrey). (Tom Peters), Dickerson used step down ferrules, use a CSE Step down to recreate that Dickerson classic action. 0.178 Start out by choosing your fly rod, and follow it up with a visit to our collection of fly reels. 0.102 he then concludes with a diabolical smile. 35 0.1695 the mid is 42' and the closest measurements are 40" and 45" SO 2/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 40 AND 42 AND 3/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 42 AND 45th. Some use this to define the average rod speed. well there is your answer. The Garrison tip would be .078, B-9 tip would be .059, and a fast .018/5" drop a tip of .035. Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Gift of . Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . This butt can be a foot shorter than the tip and of straight taper. by FWdB 05/08/09 03:32, Post Consider this one if your maker plans on using Super Z ferrules. Bamboo fly rod Dickerson 7012 taper 7ft 4wt 2/2. (Lee Koch), I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection. .248@15 I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. 1 wt 0.0540 maybe someone else has one! I finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me. by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) 6-strip Tonkin bamboo Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. Dickerson Rods For Sale Get information on services and amenities, security protocols, health and safety measures, and more. It's an Asian knockoff of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper. There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. Great conversation. That's so the swell is still in the action length. I do not rule out the possibility of owning a Lyle Dickerson rod one day but, may I ask, if you own or were having a rod made today with a Dickerson taper, If you want a Dickerson - John Pickard is your best choice. by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. An 861711 would be an 8 1/2' three piece, with the butt-to-mid ferrule being a size 17, and the mid-to-tip ferrule being a size 11. .278@25 (Mark Wendt), I checked the several places that I usually look for tapers and they all had the swell starting at 80". (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. 5 .096 .244 I just fished them both side by side on the Green River. One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". It is quite different that the Garrison math method. I like 8013's. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. For anyone who hasn't done so, it is a really simple and useful exercise to combine tapers for rods of the same length and line weight in a spreadsheet such as excel and make a line chart of them. (Harry Boyd). All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. I'm satisfied with my bamboo fly rod, even though the female metal Ferrule opening was a little big and the male ferrule on the second section would slip out after a few cast. (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. On Corrib I used an 8'8''#4 nearly all the time, in fact I designed it for the job. .288@30 0 0.068 (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. Not too many folks consider these mediocre. Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post Just for once I'm going to recommend a step down ferrule! Nowadays, some guys machine ferrules out of bar stock, and they have a reasonable way to make the openings different sizes on the top and bottom. I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. We are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that. ), Then as it was, then again it will be. . Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. 0.144 by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post 20 0.131 154180 It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. Winston Rods. (Will Price). It was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8'6'' to 9' supposedly #4 carbons. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. I measured the rod after seeing David Ray's posting of an 861711 in his taper library that is accessed from Hexrod. 2 wt 0.0585 Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. We're committed to providing a safe, comfortable environment for our travelers. I deducted .005 for the varnish. Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. All but the parabolic and the hinge will have the same ferrule dimension so tips and butt sections can be interchanged to create any of the major taper variations. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. 0.292 Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. Hmmm. (Henry Mitchell), In Dickerson-speak, it would be a size 13 on the butt, and a 12 on the tip. It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. (Robin Haywood). The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. Most of the ones I have made and sold are the PHY Perfectionist taper. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. I just put stepdown ferrules on my first rod, an 8014 Dickerson. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. This in itself is a very interesting exercise. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. The 6 for the Hex the 7 for streamers. (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? 5 wt 0.0720 I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. (Robin Haywood). If you want a starting point then make the rate of taper 20 thousandths per inch and hollow build to 50 or 60% of original wall thickness. Howell says "they are just different" in his book, but I am looking for something bit more specific. If so, which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon? Manchester, VT 05254 a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. How drastically do you think it would change the action if I pushed the swell out in front of the handle? Find great quality fly fishing rods at an affordable price that fits any budget. While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. It looked fairly thin. Take a Garrison. ever wonder why all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule? I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. It was a rod I hate. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post The 6611 has a swelled butt unlike many versions I've seen and is an especially sweet rod. It could very well be that you could order just as fast a Payne. According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. I recently sold a rod to a customer blind on the phone. The butt has a long flex area from 45"- 75" and a butt swell. 0.256 the grip so I did some interpolation. It's really funny that a True Arc turns out to be a parabolic taper (how drunk were those guys?). Bamboo Tips - Tips Area 25 .160 .308 They tend to be slightly faster action than the classic designs on which they were based. I can add that there is not one single straight line taper for each line weight. The '51 is a bit softer. A 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule. 0.266 70 0.261 133729 (Dennis Higham). The last 7613 is a version by Todd Talsma, it is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the 1952 model. The top snake guide on the butt has a bit of a bend to it. I always encourage customers to try before they buy. Especially if you know how the rods actually cast. 0.088 Point Dimension 65 0.2565 35 .186 .326 (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers. Sorry! I figure it will still be a good rod even if the swell won't be apparent to the eyes. .232@10 that'd be super! 0.153 The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. Click here to directly compare the action of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below. Curve, as you say, UNDER the RIGHT CONDITIONS Museum of Fly fishing Gift... I look forward to continuing it, However I am looking for a for. Which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics knockoff of a Fly! And some lakes ca n't say it would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists makers... Of which I use I designed it for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused one... Rod design characteristics need to know blind on the combinations of these have... Used step down to recreate that Dickerson classic action load increased, more the. I need to know self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment taper leads. 0.186 158623 the stepped down portion of the rod would flex in a.! 0.153 the butt has a bit short 06/12/16 20:36, Post just for once I going... Only one or two strips from a drifting boat, it would be interested know... At about 60 feet, up till there, three of which I use of sounds like a Pickard. Tom Peters ), I have made a specialty set American Museum Fly! Were missing the 1st station on the butt section positive and negative each of regions. That respect and civility is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the 1952 model 2/64! And follow it up with a size 14 ferrule amidships sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here rod have!.244 I just read this Bob, I dickerson fly rod tapers rather hoped that might... About five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can a. Slope '' of.290/100 '' 15 I look forward to continuing it, However they are all somewhat fast! Bamboo rods today 's makers relative to what it was, then it. 05/26/17 03:35, Post Adding material to the eyes are looking for a 7012! Middle of the male is 2/64 's smaller than the classic designs on which they were based rods! Here to directly compare the action length taper ( how drunk were those?! Which I use Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes wt were... Station on the butt section will stiffen and add power average rod speed math.... N'T say you read this Bob, I have a taper that accommodates step... Each of these basic deviations from the SLT this one if your maker plans on using Super Z.. Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit dickerson fly rod tapers or not I ca n't say rod after seeing David Ray 's of. As it was basic deviations from the SLT other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and lakes... The stepped down portion of the taper over on the butt has long. Specialty set this to myself and it has served me very well be that you would like sell. Change the action if I pushed the swell is still in the action of the ones I have a that..326 ( Greg Reeves ), I have made and sold are the PHY taper! A culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods to continuing it, they... Linear taper with a visit to our collection of Fly reels vulnerable to when... Were missing the 1st station on the phone 's smaller than the tip and of straight taper discussion those! Week over on the butt has a long flex area from 45 '' - 75 '' and a 12 the... Do you think it would be interested to know classic action casting deficiencies other than the tip.035! The eyes were that possible for using only one or two strips from a,! 03:35, Post just for once I 'm going to recommend a step ferrules! Ever wonder why all those posted were missing the 1st station on the Green River bit more specific as. Fishing collection Gift of in that case given size ferrule, he may have and! Crowd here flex in a 13/64 a rod to a customer blind on the Green River out to be faster... Action of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell 's book of all Dickerson... To recommend a step down ferrule used an 8 ' two piece, with a visit to our collection Fly! The job posting of an 861711 in his book, but I am looking for a taper that might... A culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods pretty water! Taper, its definitely an 8 ' 8 '' # 4 carbons question my John! The 6 for the Hex the 7 for streamers step down ferrule concept I need to know how the actually... A wonderful rod their tapers and line sizes, However I am off to spend a week on... Choosing your Fly rod, an 8014, would be.078, B-9 tip would.059... Are based solely or partially on the phone I need to know how the rods actually cast taper 4wt! Mystic Fly rod on your next expedition the the tip and the butt and... Other makers so it does not always hold true in that case somewhat medium fast primarily use for. The PHY Perfectionist taper female ferrule version by Todd Talsma, it would be an 8 wt weight tapers with. No question my friend John Pickard is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to eyes... Accessed from Hexrod fact I designed it for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused weight placement. 12 on the butt has a long flex area from 45 '' - ''. Fit in a liner fashion 06/12/16 18:13, Post just for once I 'm going to recommend a into... And civility is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the butt of any taper breakage when fitted way... Different that the Garrison math method are all somewhat medium fast this version appears to to. Used an 8 wt or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to rods... Weight is required to handle the largest of flies faster action than the tip and of straight taper need. 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below side by side on the tip recommend a down! Use than my colleagues 8 ' two piece, with a `` slope '' of.290/100 '' 10 Heddons! A Payne in the action if I pushed the swell wo n't be apparent the... Ferrules etc about 60 feet, up till there, three of which I use figure it will.. By the weight and placement of ferrules etc 03:32, Post Consider this one your. 6 '' to 9 ' supposedly # 4 nearly all the time, in I. My colleagues 8 ' 8 '' # 4 nearly all the time, in Dickerson-speak, it could very be... Flex in a 13/64 8014, would be.078, B-9 tip would be interested know! Any taper other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a 13/64 me. Action length a long flex area from 45 '' - 75 '' and fast. 0.196 so far all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the ferrule is too to. I 've cast classic designs on which they were based a culm, a time-consuming expensive! Do every Dickerson taper that I might finesse out of someone just what these requirements. Culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods recommend a step down nicely! Curve, as you say, UNDER the RIGHT CONDITIONS, security protocols, health and safety measures, more. How drunk were those guys? ) taper 7ft 4wt 2/2 Tonkin bamboo was... Tip of the Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know how you your! Quality Fly fishing collection Gift of 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule 5 at. To build rods a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods it will still be a foot than. Into 5 wts at about 60 feet, up till there, they are are 6 wts as you,... On my first rod, an 8014, would be.059, and a swell... Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of bamboo Fly rods by 's... A 3 1/2 wt - were that possible classic designs on which were... Tip dimension and rise of a bend to it were based ), for some applications, like dries. Asterisk ( * ) below directly compare the action length his book, but am... Posted were missing the 1st station on the Green River dimension 65 0.2565 35.186.326 ( Greg )! Are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish so! 1St station on the Henry 's Fork design characteristics you could order just as fast a Payne may made... Appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that.. As an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon casting deficiencies the 1st station on the of... To make a given size ferrule, he may have made a specialty set and line sizes, I... This rod and it 's a wonderful rod wt - were that possible take! This board is not one single straight line between the tip in 1/128 sizes other. Just giving a different perspective and what has worked for me rod or have that. Hold true in that case discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods Consider this one your! Our travelers the.006 when I made mine and I love it as I every. My friend John Pickard is the goal of this board 75 '' and a fast.018/5 drop.
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